>> "inside washington" is brought you in part by the american federation of government employees, proud to make america work. for more information about afge and membership, visit afge.org. >> what do you think of when you see a tree? the treatment for cancer. alternative fuel for our cars? do you think of hope for the environment, or food, clothing,

shelter? we do. weyerhaeuser, growing ideas. >> tonight we tell wisconsin, we tell our country, and we tell people all across the globe that voters really do want leaders who stand up and make the tough decisions. >> this week on "inside washington," the wisconsin recall election. unions take a beating. >> if you are watching, democracy die tonight. >> the first lady on her husband's jobs record. >> our economy was losing an average of 750,000 jobs a month. >> mitt romney has a different take. >> 23 million americans out of work, or stop looking for work, or can only get part-time work. >> the auk war over the leaks of

classified information. >> these leaks have to stop. >> if bill clinton is on barack obama's team, why is he praising mitt romney? >> i don't think i should have to say bad things about governor romney personally to disagree with him politically. captioned by the national captioning institute --www.ncicap.org-- >> in november of 2008, barack obama won virginia. a year later, bob mcdonnell, a republican, became governor of virginia. in 2010, scott brown became senator in massachusetts. november 2010, republicans won control of the u.s. house. this week, republican gov. scott walker survived efforts to kick

him out of office. he cut benefits for teachers and government workers, but he also turned a deficit into a surplus. does his win spell trouble for president obama in november. is this a scott brown moment for democrats, evan? >> i don't think so. there is a deeper underlying issue here, how we spend public money. there is a growing feeling that too much has gone to the pensions and public employee unions. that could hurt obama if he gets on the wrong side of it, but it is is a little bit separate from the candidacy. >> charles? >> evan is exactly right. it is being somewhat over read for its effect on the presidential election. it might have an effect in wisconsin, although obama won it by so much in 2008 that it is unclear that republicans could get the swing to get it back.

it is the growth of the public employee unions, swallowing up the government they are supposed to serve, and this the beginning of a pushback that you will see all across the country. >> nina? >> i actually think it was pretty bad for all, and the democrats. they depend on unions to support them financially, in an era -- i think the walker forces spent seven times what the democrats spent. if you don't have the unions, and increasingly, they are getting smushed to the side, democrats could be in serious trouble. >> mark? >> the winners get to write history. the rebel against have the right to trumpet -- the republicans have every right to trumpet this as a great victory.

in 2010, the republicans for the first time in history won their house, senate, and governorship. charles talks about wisconsin being a blue state. john kerry and al gore want wisconsin by fewer than 12,000 votes. overlooked is a big thing -- privatization of public services cost more to taxpayers than does paying public employees, and that will be a force in the debate. >> democrats point to exit polling showing wisconsin voters still prefer barack obama over mitt romney. here is the unsuccessful democratic candidate for wisconsin lt. governor. >> we have an uphill battle. >> this is the end of democracy. we just got outspent $30 million to $4 million trade this was the

biggest election in america. >> how much of this was about money? . >> a lot of it was about money, but there was a reason that a lot of leading democrats and the white house did not want this recall. recalls are hard. this gave the republicans a chance to tool up their machine and the estate where they are not absolutely dominant, and to see if they could combine money and organization. well, they did, and now they have the organizational model in place to show whether they can do it in other places. it remains to be seen, but it was a big success for republicans. >> san diego and san jose of voters voted overwhelmingly to cut city workers' pension benefits, not just current future benefits, but current workers. >> that is ectly what evan was

talking about. this issue began to surface a couple of years ago. wisconsin is the epicenter. it is true that in ohio, when the governor tried it, he was defeated. but when you talk about san diego and san jose, this is cutting, as you say, current beneficiaries, which is a lot harder to do, it means that people are going very much on this issue. i would add that in wisconsin, it has gone for democratic candidates every single year since 1991988, including dukaki, who was not exactly a rock star, so i am not sure, just a red state it is. >> ohio was not about pensions, it was about bargaining rights. >> wisconsin was about bargaining rights. >> the larger issue is that we as a country -- actually, the whole west lives beyond its

means. one of the ways we do that is promised pension benefits to public employees that we cannot pay. it is not just an issue, it is a crisis in some states. >> san jose, police officers retire with a 90% of their salary. >> san jose was a very significant vote. san diego has been one of the biggest republican city's historically. but san jose is a democratic city, and this is where you have a decision very much like wisconsin. i think that what you have with taxpayers and voters for the first time is, even if you are supportive of employees' rights and the right to bargain and pensions, for the first time, you are the corporation. if you are paying for it. it is not just getting a better deal from them out of general motors. this is where the squeeze is. when times are good, let the

good times roll. >> more money, less education, less roads, less bridges. it comes out of teh hide -- out of the hide of the taxpayer. >> he has made it harder for the economy to come back. >> when you need a leader to make the hard decisions to keep this country moving forward, you know if you can count on my husband, your president. >> ann romney has been on the campaign trail for her husband to great acclaim, michelle obama has been out for hers. the president has had to live with the last week's lousy unemployment numbers, the wisconsin gubernatorial recall, as the supreme court decision on health care to look forward to as well as the administration challenge to arizona's immigration law, and a special election to fill the seat of gabby giffords.

does it feel to you like the president is pushing a large boulder up a steep hill? >> and europe. even china's economy is tanking a bit. it does feel to me like he is pushing a big log of pale. -- uphill. democrats -- somebody said to me that they still have a zen approach to this election. i think i guess entirely possible -- it is entirely possible we will see president romney. >> who is saying it is easy for obama to win? >> a lot of them think that no matter what, obama will win, and that is not true. >> that is clearly not true, according to the polls. you just heard the first lady say, "you know you can count on

him to make the tough decisions." that is precisely wrong. you cannot count on him to make the tough decisions, and most voters sense that. >> the president just came out to talk about the economy. let's take a quick listen. >> the fact is, job growth in this recovery has been stronger than in the one following the last recession a decade ago. the hole we have to fill is much deeper, and that is why we have to keep on pressing with actions that further strengthen the economy. one thread is europe, which faces a renewed recession as countries deal with financial crisis. obviously, this matters to us, because europe is our largest economic trading partner. if there is less demand for products at places like paris and madrid, it could mean a less business for manufacturers in places like pittsburgh or mamilwaukee.

the good news is that there is a path out of this challenge. >> evan, you like to talk about europe. you have been predicting dire things for a while. >> i think the euro is not going to make it. i don't know how it is going to affect the united states. i mean, badly, but will it create the kind of crisis which plunges us into some kind of the second recession? i don't know. >> ben bernanke was on the hill this week and said that the fed had a number of options it was prepared to take to protect the weakening economy. what more can they do, charles? >> print money. that is your last resort. but essentially, all the arrows or out of his quiver and obama's. it will not make a difference in

time for november. obama is stuck with the current economy and this is what he is going to have to run on. >> chairman bernanke did issue a warning to the political world, and that is that the brinksmanship of last summer was a disaster. it led to a downgrade of the united states credit rating. he warned against anything remotely compared to that occurring again. that would be a political disaster and economic disaster. >> didn't we hear there were secret meetings going on this week to avoid that? >> yes. >> if they were secret, why do we know about them? [laughter] >> that is how we know about everything else -- >> great reporting, a journalism. >> thank god somebody up there -- maybe a small group, will probably just kick the problem down the road, but durbin is one

of the good guys -- >> durbin is a liberal democrat who signed onto simpson-bowles, and there he is trying to make a deal that will keep us from running off of a cliff again, and i don't think he gets any credit. >> mitch mcconnell suggest to do or redo of the december 2010 at deal that essentially gave each side a lot and got them through the crisis. he says to extend everything for a year and we will decide for next year. >> you have to give credit to two people, tom coburn and dick durbin. until somebody is willing to do that, we will have a deal -- won't have a deal. >> those guys are heroes. >> regardless of how politically useful these leaks may have been to the president, they have to stop. >> jay carney at the white house says that any suggestion that the administration has leaked for political gain is open "

grossly irresponsible." there have been a bunch of stories lately -- secret operations against al qaeda at, the president's hands-on role in the so-called kill list, cyber attacks against iran. how was this stuff getting out, evan? >> leaks from the white house. i don't think it is just the white house. i listened to tapes of john f. kennedy, a pretty cool guy, and a one time i ever heard him really blow up was about leaks. leaks drive people crazy. >> was jay carney right that there was no political motivation here? >> no. [laughter] but you're leak is my scope. is my scoop. no question that i.t. is partly to burnish the president's

credentials as commander-in- chief. republicans still they were entitled to the edge on national security, and they expected to have it running against this harvard law school graduate, this effete democratic liberal -- >> community organizer. >> all of a sudden in 2012 they are running against somebody with credentials and those are being punished and that is part of the irritation. >> and in order to burnish credentials, you leaked stories about the single mostmportant and sensitive operation we have run in decades, still ongoing, the stuxnet virus. there is a flame -- the code name of its successor -- in place, and the story in the "times" with quotations on the record from people in the white house? this is scandalous. it gives information on how woodworks, when it works, when it was introduced, even gave the name of the secret israeli unit

that worked with the cia on this. the only thing in that downward the jerusalem addresses of the members of that team. -- it left out were the true islam addresses of the members of that team. it is not only republicans upset about this. dianne feinstein -- >> it is not unbelievable. it always happens. >> because it always happens, you think it is meaningless? >> no, i don't. i am sensitive to people who think that leaks harmed national security, because they do, but this has been going on forever and that is just the way it works. >> not just any leak -- >> the girl wants to speak. >> meant to burnish the credentials of a president for campaign, and that makes it a scandal. >> there are serious issues here about what should not be classified and what we should be discussing about drone attacks

and stuff like that. having worked on these stories and done a few scoops of my own, you put it together, and usually nobody thinks he or she is entirely responsible for the leak, and in fact, they are not. look at a bob woodward book. it has a lot of this stuff in it. i did not see republicans having a fit -- >> i could not believe it reading about the guy buried with al qaeda -- >> that was bad. >> that was a bad leak, but nina raises an important point. how did we know what a tough guy dick cheney was? because of leaks. how did we know that george bush was decisive? because of leaks. they art is self-serving in every administration.

this administration has been absolutely clamping down on anybody, and to cds now does raise a question -- any leaks, and to see these leaks now does raise the question -- >> all of a sudden in the middle of a campaign, and you guys are dismissing this double agent in yemen -- >> we are not dismissing anything. >> or jeopardizing lives -- what if this happened in the past? it is happening now and is being done in a way that is truly scandalous. >> doesn't of the press have a responsibility here? during world war ii, news outlets agreed not to publish information because it would harm the troops. >> we have to have leaks. if you don't, the national- security machinery can do a lot of stupid things that we will regret. i don't see an alternative to

it. >> i am not arguing about freedom of the press, but personal responsibility on the part of editors -- >> i and other people have been on the receiving end of calls from the government saying please don't print that, and we say, okay, we will not print it. >> the yemen leak is of a good example. nobody thinks this was good, but it is not even clear it came from this country. >> it was not a subtle leak that came out of nowhere. the dna evidence on the bin laden, that came from the white house. in boasting about the raid, they spoke about it in a way that had bob gates screaming at the national security adviser to shut the blank up.

as a result of the leak about the dna evidence, anybody with an iq of 7 would understand that it ended up in the rest of afridi -- arrest of afridi, who will be in jail for the rest of his life. this is administration trying to dance on the grave of bin laden, trying to boast about how tough this president is on stuxnet, which is hurting the country and could be costing lives. >> this does give us a look into the national security approach of the two people would be president. mitt romney has said the number one geopolitical threat the united states faces is russia. he has been contradicted by virtually every thoughtful republican on the subject. this gives a sense of what the obama people think and will be helpful to president obama. i would remind them of norman schwarzkopf's great line, when

he was praised for his courage in running the first persian gulf war successfully. he said it does not take courage to order men into battle. it takes courage to go into battle. there is a little bit too much self congratulatory back-patting on the part of the administration. >> charles, you changed the subject. the doctor -- i yield to no one in my disgust with the pakistanis, but reading a newspaper, you could figure out that it was a neighbor taking out information and it would not be difficult to figure it out. the person to blame is not reporters or leakers. the person to blame on the pakistanis -- are the pakistanis. >> it is not a partisan issue. dianne feinstein is not a republican, not a conservative. she's incredibly angry over what happened, especially on stuxnet,

an ongoing operation. the real question is will there be a special prosecutor? if you had one on plame infinitesimally important compared to what has been leaked here, destroying the life of scooter libby -- >> the justice department has been far more aggressive than the bush justice department on leaks. i have been critical of how aggressive they have been. >> watch carl levin, chairman of the senate armed services committee, thoughtful, serious man. >> what is bill clinton up to in this campaign? >> i am strongly committed to his reelection. e -- i don't think i should have to say bad things about governor romney personally to disagree with him politically. the fact that i was

complimentary of his success as a business person does not mean that i think he should be elected and president obama should not. >> former president bill clinton has said some things that upset democrats and the administration. sarah palin gave him an attaboy. whose team is he playing for, mark? >> bill clinton is sui generis. he is not talking points kind of guy. he is the only democrat since franklin roosevelt to win a second white house term and leave with a 65% approval, 22 million new jobs created, and a balanced budget, plus political adroitness. the obama folks don't have any other surrogate to compare with bill clinton. if he does not echoed everything david axelrod wants him to say, i'm sorry, it makes him more credible and convincing. >> if you are clinton, you say "i am of former president of the united states," and you cite

what mark did and say who the hell is david axelrod to tell me what to do? he is an independent agent, or, if you like, a bull in a china shop. there is a lot of crap. there. -- lot of crockery there. what he dead by saying that he had a sterling business. is entirely undermined -- business career is entirely undermine the rollout of the obama campaign, which was about bain. >> it is entirely legitimate to attack how he made money. it is his resume. it is legitimate. >> he tells cnbc that we are still in recession, the president says we are in recovery -- >> i am totally suspicious of bill clinton did he is a fantastic political figure, but

a piece of them cannot help himself. he cannot help but stick it to the guy who beat his wife. maybe it is unconscious. i am not a shrink, who knows? >> i am a shrink and i will tell you. you are absolutely right. [laughter] he is resentful, and everything he does -- >> bill clinton ought to be grateful to barack obama, because if hillary had won, it would be bill clinton in the white house all day with nothing to do and that means trouble. >> last word. see you next week. >> "inside washington" is brought you in part by the american federation of government employees, proud to make america work. for more information about afge and membership, visit afge.org. for more information about afge and membership, visit afge.org.